Consider a very simple problem, which is to find the maximum value out of a list of 5 numbers between 0 and 1. This is obviously trivial, but serves as a good example for a real-world problem I'm facing.

One could attempt to train an MLP to solve this problem using randomly generated input data. The following code is an example in Keras/Tensorflow. It generates 1000000 random examples (A large number, so we can reduce overfitting as a factor). It also applies some simple techniques like LR decay and early stopping to optimize training.

import tensorflow as tf

# Create a dataset where the y value is the largest of 5 random x values.
x = tf.random.uniform(shape=(1000000, 5), minval=0.0, maxval=1.0)
y = tf.reduce_max(x, axis=-1)

dataset = tf.data.Dataset.from_tensor_slices(
    (x, y)

# See the post for discussion of hyperparameter optimization
units = 400
depth = 5
initial_learning_rate = 0.001

model = tf.keras.models.Sequential()

for i in range(depth):
    model.add(tf.keras.layers.Dense(units, activation="relu"))


stopping_callback = tf.keras.callbacks.EarlyStopping(monitor="loss", patience=5)

reduce_lr_callback = tf.keras.callbacks.ReduceLROnPlateau(monitor="loss", factor=0.75, patience=2)

model.fit(dataset, epochs=1000)

The metric we care about is the mean absolute percentage error. When we run the code, the model trains successfully. But very importantly, the loss does not ever go below ~0.2 with these hyperparameters.

0.2% error sounds pretty good, but it's actually unacceptable for my use case. I need much more precision, as in practice the model is used in a situation where any errors are magnified.

At this point, you may want to suggest hyperparameter tuning, but I assure you I have done an extensive amount of hyperparameter tuning on this and similar problems.

The model is clearly underfitting, and it is possible to decrease the error by increasing the number of parameters in the network. Empirically, I've noticed that increasing the number of parameters (and number of examples) by an order of magnitude can reduce the error by a similar order of magnitude.

However, intuitively this just feels wrong. It is not practical to have a network with millions, or even tens of millions of parameters, just to regress such a simple function. It feels like there should be an architecture that can learn a simple function much more efficiently, but I have not been able to find any reference to such an alternative architecture.

Again, of course this particular example is trivial, but hopefully you can imagine a real-world analogue where an unknown (more complex, but similar) function is expressed by a similar dataset. And in such a real-world example, the unacceptable error still persists (and is much more pronounced, for reasons that I don't fully understand).

Does anyone have any idea what's going on here? Am I missing something? How can I improve the performance to a place that would be acceptable?

  • $\begingroup$ Would softmax (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Softmax_function) help? $\endgroup$ Jan 9, 2023 at 6:26
  • $\begingroup$ @JaumeOliverLafont Not in practice, as far as I can recall. Is there theory behind why softmax would be better than relu here? $\endgroup$
    – Daniel
    Jan 9, 2023 at 6:28
  • $\begingroup$ Any reason why you would not model 5 output nodes and have them each score a percentage of how likely it is that that one is the largest? $\endgroup$ Jan 9, 2023 at 10:10

2 Answers 2


An interesting problem. This network has only 933 trainable parameters, and obtains MeanAbsolutePercentageError of 0.01 - 0.04. It is based on a softmax activation, to choose which item from the input to choose.

n, dim, validation_split = 100000, 5, 0.1
X = tf.random.uniform(shape=(n, dim), minval=0.0, maxval=1.0)
y = tf.reduce_max(X, axis=-1)

initial_learning_rate = 0.003
act, units, depth = 'relu', 16, 3

inp = tf.keras.layers.Input(dim)
x = inp

for _ in range(depth):
    x = tf.keras.layers.Dense(units, activation=act)(x)
    x = tf.keras.layers.BatchNormalization()(x)

x = tf.keras.layers.Dense(int((dim * units)**0.5), activation="elu")(x)
x = tf.keras.layers.BatchNormalization()(x)

x = tf.keras.layers.Dense(dim, activation="softmax")(x)

# Skip this step to make categorical predictions
x = tf.reduce_sum(inp * x, axis=-1, keepdims=True)

model = tf.keras.models.Model(inp, x)

is_categorical = model.output.shape[1] == dim

    loss=tf.keras.losses.CategoricalCrossentropy() if is_categorical else
    metrics=[tf.keras.metrics.CategoricalAccuracy()] if is_categorical else []

stopping_callback = tf.keras.callbacks.EarlyStopping(monitor="val_loss", patience=10, restore_best_weights=True)
reduce_lr_callback = tf.keras.callbacks.ReduceLROnPlateau(monitor="loss", factor=0.1**0.5, patience=5,
                                                          verbose=1, min_lr=1e-4)

target = tf.cast(X == y[:,None], tf.float32) if is_categorical else y

h = model.fit(X, target, verbose=1,
              batch_size=1024, epochs=10000, validation_split=validation_split,
              callbacks=[stopping_callback, reduce_lr_callback])

n_val = int(n * validation_split)
print([model.evaluate(X[:n_val],  target[:n_val]),
       model.evaluate(X[-n_val:], target[-n_val:])])

An alternative formulation outputs just the softmax activation, this obtains an accuracy of 98 - 99%. Granted, it isn't 100% accurate.

Summary of the model with just one output:

Layer (type)                    Output Shape         Param #     Connected to                     
input_273 (InputLayer)          [(None, 5)]          0                                            
dense_868 (Dense)               (None, 16)           96          input_273[0][0]                  
batch_normalization_577 (BatchN (None, 16)           64          dense_868[0][0]                  
dense_869 (Dense)               (None, 16)           272         batch_normalization_577[0][0]    
batch_normalization_578 (BatchN (None, 16)           64          dense_869[0][0]                  
dense_870 (Dense)               (None, 16)           272         batch_normalization_578[0][0]    
batch_normalization_579 (BatchN (None, 16)           64          dense_870[0][0]                  
dense_871 (Dense)               (None, 8)            136         batch_normalization_579[0][0]    
batch_normalization_580 (BatchN (None, 8)            32          dense_871[0][0]                  
dense_872 (Dense)               (None, 5)            45          batch_normalization_580[0][0]    
tf_op_layer_mul_251 (TensorFlow [(None, 5)]          0           input_273[0][0]                  
tf_op_layer_Sum_329 (TensorFlow [(None, 1)]          0           tf_op_layer_mul_251[0][0]        
Total params: 1,045
Trainable params: 933
Non-trainable params: 112

I don't know what kind your original problem is, but maybe you could do some feature-engineering by supplying the min/max/median directly to the network. Then the network wouldn't need to learn to approximate those functions.

  • 1
    $\begingroup$ Thank you! The secret here seems to be this layer: x = tf.reduce_sum(inp * x, axis=-1, keepdims=True) Can you give any intuition or guidance as to why you decided to do it this way? The elu activation layer with a very specific number of units is also interesting, can you shed some light on that? And the idea of putting in the min/max/median, I don't think I've seen that anywhere before? $\endgroup$
    – Daniel
    Jan 9, 2023 at 22:31
  • $\begingroup$ I also noticed this doesn't seem to extrapolate well to other functions - e.g. if we use reduce_min() instead of reduce_max(), it doesn't work at all $\endgroup$
    – Daniel
    Jan 9, 2023 at 23:38
  • $\begingroup$ For reference, one of the most simple functions I actually care about approximating is something like this: gist.github.com/JustASquid/376ecc8f6469fb5a4262941c293352ab $\endgroup$
    – Daniel
    Jan 10, 2023 at 0:31
  • $\begingroup$ The tf.reduce_sum(inp * x, axis=-1, keepdims=True) came from a hunch that maybe the softmax would learn to pick the correct input, and push the weight of the others to zero. It is surprising that this didn't work when the aggregation is min! However the categorical prediction works on both cases, but clearly you'd like to solve this as a regression problem instead. I'll post an update if something comes to my mind. $\endgroup$
    – NikoNyrh
    Jan 10, 2023 at 20:57
  • $\begingroup$ The number of dimensions in elu is the geometric mean of its input and output size, I have a habbit of doing that. And I have found that elu works better in regression tasks than relu, actually it can approximate relu (or a plain linear function) arbitrary well when combined with batch normalization and subsequent layers. $\endgroup$
    – NikoNyrh
    Jan 10, 2023 at 20:59

Assuming the $N$ numbers are different, a function that combines sums, products and the hard step function for solving the maximum may look like this.

$$ max(x_1,x_2,...,x_N) = \sum_{i=1}^N x_i \prod_{j=1,j\neq i}^N sign(x_i-x_j) $$

$sign(z)$ is $1$ for $z>0$ and $0$ for $z<0$.

  • 1
    $\begingroup$ The example is just to demonstrate regressing some unknown function of N inputs with 1 output. You can imagine replacing max() with something else (e.g. sum() ) and the problem is still valid. $\endgroup$
    – Daniel
    Jan 9, 2023 at 22:34

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